Let Go and Haul: An interview with my sister Vita & March’s playlist
Week 12, 2018 – Brooklyn
Journey: where we’re at
Deadline town! We’re fast approaching demo day, so the days are long and we’ve been working weekends for a while, and I’m still low key sick which doesn't help either. The second iteration of the app is starting to feel really exciting though – our point of view is starting to form.
Journal: what I learned
Today I’m swapping out this section for a conversation with my sister Vita who is visiting from Ottawa this weekend, and who is about to start articling in criminal defense. In talking to her about this, I was surprised to learn this job very entrepreneurial. I always thought being an attorney was a clear cut path, and I wrong, criminal defense is scrappy af! She talks about why, and what some of the challenges are in this field from a woman’s perspective.
Vita, one of the reasons you chose criminal defense is because it’s entrepreneurial. Can you explain more?
I knew I wanted to specialize in criminal law, and in Canada where I live, the two paths for this are: Crown attorney work (being a state prosecutor aka working for the government) or becoming a criminal defense lawyer. The thing that really appealed to me about the latter was the idea of having your own business and being able to create your own legacy. I come from a family of entrepreneurs – dad, mom, grandma, you! So I guess it’s in my blood :)
Can you explain why being a criminal defense lawyer is entrepreneurial?
In the jurisdiction of Canada, you have to build your own client base. Those client relationships are built on a huge amount of trust because your clients’ liberty is at stake; they could go to jail. Also, the work is very individualistic because of this relationship. Unlike other kinds of law, you review all the evidence on your own, and you’re the only lawyer in court. In big trials like murders there will sometimes be two, but usually it’s just yourself. You’re the only person who will know what you’re saying.
Do criminal defense lawyers usually work with a firm and freelance their own clients? Or do they start their own businesses?
It’s a split. Most criminal defense firms max around ten lawyers, but ultimately it’s more of a partnership where everyone has their own client base. It’s really important you bring in your own clients. A lot of lawyers also go out on their own as sole practitioners. Sole practitioners are very popular in criminal defense because of the individualistic nature of the work.
So how do you bring in new clients when you start at a firm? This is something you’re going to be doing really soon, right?
Haha yeah! There are a few ways. One is trickle down. You’ll get handed some smaller cases when you come in and then eventually build up a client base. The second is going to the courthouse and talking to the people standing around who need representation. [Wow, so you just cherry pick them out of the courthouse?] Yes! There are often potential clients just hanging out around the courtroom. Word of mouth is also big. People who are alleged to do criminal activity might talk to someone else who is alleged to do criminal activity – especially in jails. The last is the rotary list at the police station (when someone is arrested and gets to call a lawyer). The list usually goes alphabetically so every lawyer gets a turn.
What are some of the challenges of being a criminal defense lawyer in your perspective.
It’s a very male-dominated industry, so like any male-dominated field, you have the typical boys club dynamic which makes it difficult to strategically network. [Ugh yeah, and networking is essential for success and much harder for women]. Absolutely. You also deal with the typical sexist shit too – dudes making passes at you, etc. On top of this, lawyers are known to make offhand comments, which we call “shop talk” in the biz. These are derogatory comments about everything from addiction to lifestyle choices, to of course, women – for example when dealing with gendered crimes such as domestic abuse/sexual assault. All this combined makes it a tough environment to simply… do your job!
But, what I find much more challenging is that a lot of women see criminal defense as a betrayal to my gender – especially with the “me too” movement, I get women asking me “how can you sleep at night!?” This perception is incorrect. I can be both a feminist and represent my clients in court.
Since the job of a criminal defense lawyer is finding all the holes in the evidence that can raise a doubt to your client’s guilt, this means carefully going through every possible option. In the case of a gendered crime, this also means questioning a complainant’s credibility and asking the question “is she telling the truth?”.
Marie Heinen, a well-known Canadian criminal defense lawyer who represented Jian Ghomeshi (a huge media personality charged for sexual assault and found not guilty in a very publicly contentious case a few years ago) says it best in this address to University of Toronto: “was I invited as Marie Heinen the defense lawyer or the business person or the feminist? Do I have to publicly reconcile those things when, in my mind, they are not inconsistent or irreconcilable, nor inexplicable, nor incongruous?”
Women criminal defense lawyers get a lot of flack. There’s a huge double standard. Men don’t get vilified (like Marie Heinen did in that case), or asked if their work keeps them up at night.
In this moment of embarking on your career, what do you eventually want for your future?
I want my own business as a sole practitioner or with partners. I also want to be able to mentor, and I’d love to be able to teach part time at a university too. I want to be able to consistently learning and growing in a way that I can make my business better for myself and my clients. But yeah, I want my own thing :)
Amazing. Thanks for sharing, Vita!
Jams: what I’m into
My March playlist is here! If you’re new to this, the creative constraints for these monthly playlists are:
Mainly new releases
At least half of the tracks are by artists who identify as women
It's harder than you think, especially in the spectrum of hip hop <—> electronic, which are the genres I like going deep on. Gotta shine a light!
Also, my favorite radio show, Soulection, was broadcast from my hometown Edmonton this week (!!!)